splitting ties in fly shoots

[chappo (Greg Chapman)]

Need some guidance here from the gurus.
Last night at the Wagga night fly shoot we had a tie of 290.09 for first and second place. It was suggested by a few experienced fellows that the highest scoring LAST target split the ties. Basically whoever shot the highest E target in our case (5 target match) decided the winner.

I objected stating that my understanding of the rules was a countback to the highest scoring target no matter which target that was. As it turned out both shooters had a high target of 60.03 so I went to the next highest target to split the winners.

Now in the last  18hours there has been some serious discussion and scuttlebut that I got this wrong. The arguments raised state that the LAST target, ie the E  target in a 5 target match, splits the ties as this is counting backwards and this is the way its done in fullbore and F class and even  golf apparently.

The below line is listed in page 11 of the fly rules as found on this site

"In the event of a draw a count back to the highest single target score will decide the placing."

My understanding of this rule is the highest single target regardless of where it falls ie Target a,b,c,d or e, is used to split ties.
The others, who I will leave nameless at this stage, state that as it says "count back" you must start at the E target and split ties this way.

I would like an answer either way and I can then decide if I should leave the knives in my back or pull them out!!

[Pete van Meurs]

Greg,

You are correct, it is count-back not a count backwards. The count-back starts with each competitors best target and so on till we have a winner. As there is no provision for a 'shoot-off' the possibility of a draw exists - I guess we will have to deal with that if and when it happens. The Full-bore/F class method was deliberately avoided as it brings too much randomness into play which SSAA events are not about, just as shoot-off's are nowhere to be found in any SSAA rifle shooting event that I am aware of. The NRAA have their way(s) of doing things and the SSAA have their way(s).

Pete

[Anthony Hall]

Hi Mate,

You are correct in my opinion.  The rules say
"In the event of a draw a count back to the highest single target score  will decide the placing. "
Does not say countback golf style.... E, D, C, B, A.

And there is nothing in the main rule book that would take it any further that that, I would have made the same decision as you.

It might be worth PVM picking this up and presenting to the comittee for a rule adjustment to clarify.

I would make it, the highest scoring target, then the second highest, third highest, fourth highest, fifth highest and in the unlikley event that there is still a tie.... highest number of tens, nines etc and if still unable to be sorted, the smallest group. Seems a lot of criterea, but say 2 shooters shoot a perfect 300 with 6 flies each..... how do you pick the winner ? Possible in 300 fly even they are not registered matches.

Cheers

Anthony

[Pete van Meurs]

Hi Guys,

There should be no real need to add anything to the rule as written since it has long been the norm in benchrest to compare smallest groups in group matches or highest scoring target in Hunter class matches to break ties. Naturally this carries over to benchrest's newest sub-discipline the 'Fly'. Although Greg's dilemma occurred at a 300mt match and would be outside of the rule book, common-sense tells us that to do other than use the 500mt rules would be silly.

As to modifying the current rule - all that would be needed would be to insert the words " in no particular sequence ".

Pete

[David Dundas]

I just wanted to thow my 2 cents in here.

Regarding the term countback: I assume the term and meaning has been taken from other sports to spilt ties. One of the oldest sports is golf where this term is used: In golf it is indeed a Count - back. ie the best score on the last hole (18th) is the winner if still tied then they look at the 17th etc until the tie is broken.
So if my theory is true then the best score on last card (E target) would be the winner, if still tied then go back to the D target etc.
The scored targets already take into account a the group scores so I see no need why you would remeasure groups, if you do then which target do you start with?

As I said its just my two cent worth, so don't jump all over me I will just watch the posts with interest.

Congrats to the 2 shooters who tied.


Regards


David Dundas

[Anthony Hall]

Hi David,

In the fly rules, it says ""In the event of a draw a count back to the highest single target score  will decide the placing."

So the single highest target is the defining term.... it does not say a count back until a winner is decided (like golf), therefore the count back would be the highest target, followed by the next highest target etc..... hence the word countback.

Adding PVM's suggested words would clarify this beyond doubt though.

Cheers

Anthony

[David Dundas]

Yes, Anthony I concur with you.

I Googled "countback" and got a couple of different definitions but the words "highest single target score" leaves it in no doubt.

Thanks


David Dundas