measuring devices

[Les Fraser]

John Mcquire asked what the top ten SOTY finishers are using in the way of measuring devices and what they thought of them. Which is an interesting question and worth some thought.
hope to see some good comment about this
cheers Les

[Anthony Hall]

Hi,

Regardless of peoples opinions on what is and what is not necessary........ I think there is an important point here that very precice weights, measures and processes will only deliver an improvement to someone that is already doing well at wind reading, bench technique and match practice.....

If you have money to spend on nice tools, but you don't have a set of wind flags.... think about the fact that great tools, processes and time reloading might add 2 points per target.... so 10 points in a match. Sure, in a big match at the top end of the field 10 points can mean the difference between first place or 13th place....... but miss a wind call by not having your own flags and you can drop 20 points in one target !!

My favourite Measuring tools are;

Mitutoto Digital Micrometer - Great to use - Resolution 0.00005" or 5 hundreths of a thou... reality is probably useable to a tenth of a thou.

Starrett Digital Calipers - Great and quick to use - Rated at 1/2 a thou accurace - reality 0.001-0.002" (one to 2 thou)

Sinclair Bullet sorting stand with digital micrometer.  Accurate to one thou for sorting projectiles by base to Ogive or Length overall. Also doubles as able to be used to quickly check case length and sort Rimfire ammo by rim thickness. (by using a 6mm bullet comparator.

Sinclair IP54 Digital Case Neck Micrometer - Reads to 0.00005" but very reliable to a tenth of a thou - Quick and easy to use with a bit of practice

Sartorius GD503 Powder scales.  Fantastic to use, easily weigh powder to the individual kernal.... Won't necessarily improve your loads at all compared to another cheaper set of digital scales or quality balance beam scales if you use them correctly (leave them on, minimize drafts, zero before each weigh etc..... What they do do however is speed up weighing powder charges significantly.

The above tools are what I would consider to be amongst my favourite tools and I would recommend them without hesitation ..... but only after you have a good front rest, good rear bag or two, a full set of wind flags, quality dies etc.

Cheers

Anthony

[Les Fraser]

As for measuring tools for myself i use
Junke for measuring concentricity of the projectiles
Ensinz- digital micrometer and Vernier Calipers
Hornady lock and load bullet runout gauge, straightener
Sinclair Stand and digital micrometer for sorting bullets base to Ogive
hornady Bullet and case gauges headspace set
Sinclair concentricity gauge for cases
NECO gauge for internal measurements of case
Sinclair neck thickness gauge, use it after turning the necks and after every 3 reloads to check brass movement
home made case neck straightening tool
Home made cartridge base tool to check for squareness to the case body.

Anthony point is probably the most valid here flags ( Good ones) are more valuable than any of the above items. If you have great dies, Wilson in line or Redding RCBS comp then you are well on the way to reloading well.

The target is 500m away it won't get any closer with more tools, the tooling is purely to take out some of the perceived variables.

cheers Les

[john mc quire]

 Hi Les  thanks for oprning up  the forum  for more imput about the gear that we use to try and shoot better scores in the Fly  ---  I agree with you and Anthony that we all need some good gear to help us load our ammo  --  there are heaps of things that are advertised as the best thing since sliced bread  for the job  -- but it all come back to how much you want to spend  and how much time you are prepared to invest into the quest for accurate handloads  
         over the years i have tried out many gadgets  and machines  that i saw at shoots or was told about by other shooters and found that a lot of the gear available to us can be useful  in the right hands  --  but it all comes back to the main object of the quest -- to find the best Bullet and case  for the job  --  and anything that can help you sort and grade your projectiles and cases  into suitable batches  is good for you and your mental health also  --  
               i have found that a Jeunke bullet comparitor helps me find the best batches of my favourite projectiles  -- and when i find a good batch i buy as many of them as i can afford  --  the same with cases  the jeunke can check cases also  --
             my next favourite bit of gear is my home made concentricity guage  that  can also check cases for out of line necks and base deformaties  
               i use inline dies  -- electronic and beam scales  --   and a heap of gear to measure my cases and projectiles  so i can put them into batches and i keep them in these batches for the life of the case  --  
               if i see something new and think it may be of use to me and help me load better ammo  i usualy try and build one for myself  -- some times it works other times it goes into the bin  --  win some loose some
               but like Anthony said   all the gear is of no use if you can't read the conditions  --  a good set of wind flags  is very important  and the wind indicator balls  are all helpful
                 i go to many different ranges to shoot and you always see new gear and new ideas being tried out  -- the hardest thing is to decide if you need to buy or build these new idea things to be able to shoot a better score   --  and you are the only person that can answer that question  ---  all thes decisions  
                  i hope to see all my old shooting friends  and new ones too  at Batemans Bay  in a couple of weeks time  -- and see what new idea's  and gear is being used  
                   cheers  john mc  

[Michael Bell]

Good on you John,
Make sure you bring a scarfe...don't want to see any Queenslanders turning blue just because the temperature drops below 18 degrees!!
Like most shooters I've spent a small fortune on reloading toys, some of which are great and some of which are not. The topic of measuring bullets came up on another thread.
I purchased a Bearing surface comparator which supposedly only measures the part of the bullet that contacts the barrel. The theory is that a bullet which has a slightly longer or shorter bearing surface should create more or less drag as it moves down the barrel resulting in unacceptable velocity spreads. I sat down and studiously measured a box of copperhead 103's and to my disappointment there was hardly any variation at all...about 2 thou over 200 bullets. I did the same with a box of Berger 105's and got a similar result. I cross referenced the longer bullets by weight and found that most ( not all ) of the longer bullets were slightly heavier..the reverse applied to the shorter ones. So,..If I'm in the mood I sort by weight only and I do that on a  digital scale which is a reasonably quick process.
I still use the comparator but mainly to identify loose bullets from the bottom of my draw or for interest sake when purchasing a new lot of bullets. It can also provide semi useful info if your into testing different bullet varieties.   By using this tool I can tell you (using a copperhead 103 as a base line) that the Berger 105 VLD is longer in the bearing surface by about 25 thou. The Berger 105 hybrid is 40 thou longer, Johnny Butts's 107's are 60 thou longer and Berger's 108 bt is 80 thou longer. By understanding these facts I can quickly calculate that any bullet which is longer than the 105 vld will be problematic in my Bat actioned 6 BRX because the boat tail/ bearing surface junction of these bullets will be seated well past the neck/ shoulder junction of my cases which, I think, is an accuracy disaster waiting to happen.
I don't turn necks any more. My efforts seemed  to make them worse ,not better,(less concentric) when measured with a mitsutoyo micrometer. Lapua 6 br cases are very good out of the box. A seated bullet will give me a neck diameter of .2675. I have a neck diameter in my barrel chamber of .269 giving me clearance of .0015....perfect... without touching a case neck.
I full length resize after every firing. Pete Van Meurs expressed an interesting theory on this and it makes sense to me. I'm sure he will be happy to explain if asked.
I have an annealing machine and use it regularly. I believe this is advantageous as it ,without question, improves neck tension consistency which can be felt when seating bullets.
I weigh my powder charges and spend some time doing this. Some people don't agree with me but I've always done it and am happy to include it as part of the process.
I'm very particular about seating depths and probably spend more time on this than most. Once you work out a repeatable method of calculating distance from cartridge base to the lands all you really need is a Sinclair hex nut and a good set of callipers. It's very interesting to see just how far the lands will move over the life of a barrel. I'll bet it's a lot more than most people think!
Regardless of what I do or don't do in the reloading room there is one point I'm absolutely committed to.......I never, ever, ever.. fire a shot out my target rifles without first setting up wind flags. The most pointless exercise on the planet, in my opinion, is to try and analyse the results of a practise or load development session if you haven't shot using flags.
Sorry to be a bit long winded.
Regards,
Belly