Using the same LG in both classes?

[Peter Merriman]

Hi All,

I don't want to start an argument here just to get other Fly Shooters thoughts.
I had not even given using my LG in heavy a thought thus built a heavy gun for that class.
My thoughts were that the 2 classes were separate and that the idea was to use 2 different rifles.
Again I understand it is not against any rule to use LG for both classes and I am fairly new to Fly shooting so there may have been a general discussion about this some time in the past.
Please feel free to educate me.

Peter

[Anthony Hall]

Hi Pete,

Good question and point of discussion....  I am sure it won't start an argument.

There has been some discussion, both verbally and via the forum over the past few years.... and there are various points of view.... and some that have held passionate views on either pre nomination of classes for dirty dozen or 2 gun events.  Thankfully we seem to have achieved a level of peace and common sense with these things.

The general feel is that unless the conditions are near perfect, a true heavy gun (both weight and calibre) will have the advantage.... This is usually demonstrated well at Canberra shoots where heavy guns make up a much smaller percentage of the field, but a larger percentage of the dirty dozen.... So if you decide to shoot the same rifle in both classes, you are potentially limiting your ballistics advantage.  You also have to clean more... there is no way you can get 100 rounds through without cleaning.... where some do 50 rounds in each of 2 rifles without cleaning.

There is also the other side of the argument where people feel that by using the same rifle for both classes, you have the added advantage of learning from your mistakes in one class and improving your chances that way.... There is some validity to this....

However you look at it.... shooting both classes is a lot more work and mental strain on the day...., some believe it is better to shoot one class well than do a reasonable job of two classes.... each to their own.

At the moment, I think that as match organisers we want to encourage people to shoot more classes and enjoy the events.... therefore we would be hesitant to limit peoples option in this regard via rule changes.... If however it became a problem in the future where people were dominating by using the same rifle in both classes, a rule change would be in order.

As I had to point out to an older cantankerous local person who used to shoot fly.... The rules are the same for everyone.... if you think it is an advantage either way.... do it yourself !!

I am sure others will chime in with their opinions.

Cheers

Anthony

[Les Fraser]

A great topic and one that certainly needs some addition.

I have shot both classes and of the belief that a true light gun and a true heavy is the spirit of the event, in saying that both rifles with rest and gear there isn't much change out of $15000 and no room in the boot for a can of baked beans.

I know some shoot one caliber and do very very well and power to them, and if they are winning i just try harder.

I do remember wining light and heavy in the same year and believe me there wasn't any spare time and it is so true you only get out of a sport what you put in.

The most enjoyable thing about the fly is that it has very few rules and they shouldn't be tampered with as this sport has been going for a long period of time now. We have a blast and love to see the new toys out their and see what other shooters are doing and that is a little of the attraction. For me the WOW factor will always and should always be at fly matches.

Hitting a fly @ 500m hit it with what ever rifle you like as long as less than 17lbs for light and if you can carry it to the bench with heavy power to you...........

cheers Les

[Pete van Meurs]

Hi Peter,

One of the trends of late is to build a second light gun but bring it's weight up a bit. Keeping it under 10kgm makes it eligible for open F class on NRA ranges yet the extra 5 lbs or so makes it easier to shoot  and allows one to go up in calibre a bit if so desired. This also means you shoot both from the same rest etc. Lee-Anne's two rifles are a good example. They are identical in every respect except for that extra 5 lbs. Both are 6mm Dasher with identical chambers and use the same load so that one batch of ammo feeds both rifles. Obviously anything learned from one can be applied to the other just as if one rifle was used to shoot both classes. Having the two rifles avoids having to clean during the match but none the less it's really just as if she shot the one rifle all day.

At the recent match at Batemans Tyson Trotter used a single light gun to shoot both classes with eminent success and completely within the rules. Please take into account the difficulty faced by those who are involved with approving new rules or rule changes. Simply put - any rule needs to be easily policed and enforced otherwise it will only lead to argument. Also, these rules need to avoid any hint of discrimination on any grounds (e.g. the chap who cannot afford two rifles but wants max enjoyment from his day). It was for these (and other) reasons that discussions about just this subject never got anywhere.

Another example of the difficulty in policing a rule along these lines would be my 2011 Federal cup foray. I used two light rifles for both classes but after using each on separate warmer targets I used the one with lower mileage barrel to shoot the first 3 targets in both classes. As the stocks are quite different, I then swapped rifles and re-set my rest etc to complete the remaining 4 targets. How would one have adjudicated on this scenario???

Hope this gives you an insight into the necessity for keeping the rules as clear-cut as possible.

Pete vM

[Peter Merriman]

Thanks for the responses guys
I have done exactly what Pete said and that is built a second rifle to come in under 10kgs for FOpen.
If I was only shooting the Fly and not F Open I would not have bothered building a second rifle.

I assumed there had been discussions had weighing up the pros and cons on using the one rifle versus using a dedicated LG @HG.
Tyson was on the bench next to me at the BB Fly and it got me thinking about the number of shots he was firing out of the one barrel over the course of the day and how the barrel would stand up over time.

The above responses have satisfied my curiosity, thanks to Anthony, Les and Pete