Shooter Of The Year (SOTY) qualification

[Stuart Elliott]

Hi All, I would like to start a discussion about the SOTY and make some suggestions about what shoots qualify and minimum numbers etc.

I know that the SOTY administration is run by others these days and that is great and I appreciate it but I just wanted to make some suggestions if they are open to receive them.
I can see things have grown with the 500 Fly and the SOTY is a much more  sort after award. Many people may not know that the SOTY award was first setup by Fergus Bailey and myself back in the '90's. We organised and paid for the trophy.  We decided the events. The shoots involved varied but usually one in each State. We tried hard to ensure that each shoot involved were  matches properly run and had reasonable numbers. This was difficult and sometimes and we refused to allow some shoots because they were poorly run. The early days of Batemans Bay is an example of this and we refused to allow it to be part of it. That drew some critazism from a couple of people but we were trying to ensure credibility and until that changed we would not allow it. Fortunately things at Batemans Bay have turned around completely and that is good.
The main aim of the SOTY was to encourage travelling and reward shooters who became effective with their shooting in different environments at different locations. Put simply, a better reflection of a shooters ability in a variety of environments. This also would boost numbers at these selected events we hoped.

So my suggestions here now are that  there be up to 2 events per State allowed in the system each year. Each event must be to a minimum standard. Each event must be an official registered event. Now Fly Shoot is part of SSAA this means the usual rules apply to have your shoots registered to be official. Official events for records and for SOTY or State Championships or a Nationals. That in minimum. There are procedures to have your events registered and if it is the first time you apply the range will be required to provide proof of a number of things. Including official range measurements, the standard of equipment (target frames, benches etc) and personal with experience to organise, run, score and control an official match. So that should be No1.

Since the SOTY was original designed to encourage shooters to travel I believe that whatever the total number of shoots  required that at least one result from each of 3 States should apply. Any 3 States. So, to give an example, if a person shoots 2 events in Vic at Little River and one at Canberra and two at Batemans Bay they cannot have their annual SOTY result derived from only the shoots at Little River and Batemans Bay. In this example they would have to include the Canberra result and leave off a result from one of the others.

Suggestion No 3 is that a minimum entry number be required to get points. Maybe 10 per class.

Anyway these are my suggestions. Looks forward to comments.

Stuart Elliott

[Anthony Hall]

Hi Stuart,

Great topic for discussion and I agree that as the sport grows SOTY is more highly regarded and sought after.

My thoughts, and I have already had some brief discussions along these lines with Pete and Jugs were that maybe we should increase the number of allowable SOTY shoots in each state to 3, it encourages ranges to run more shoots and there are now more ranges that can run shoots each year.

On that basis, there  should be 4 shoots included in the SOTY score and we could specify that they  must include 3 different ranges.... rather than 3 states, as I see no problem for QLD shooters shooting 2 in Brisbane, one in townsville and one in ACT to quality.  Brisbane and townsville might as well be different states as with Batemans Bay and Wagga.

I agree that they should be registered benchrest matches and think that 10 or 12 entries per class is a fair minumum.  Maybe we could have a system where if there were only say 9 heavy gun entries (and a min of 12 was applied) first place gets the points for 4th place, 2nd gets 5th place points etc.  That way if one class falls a little short, at least it can still be a SOTY just the maximum points are not up for grabs.

The shoots have to be run properly, scored well and all rules have to be enforced and applied fairly. I think you will find Batemans Bay has changed a lot .... ask around and I hope you will find good comments on how it was run and scored.... (you will have to come down again sometime and shoot with us.)

I look forward to the discussion on this topic ready for next years season.

Cheers

Anthony

[Stuart Elliott]

Anthony,
Yes I know Batemans Bay has changed a lot , thanks to you mostly and this is why I said that. Well done and I am sure other organisers are taking note and improving their own show wherever needed. It goes to show that people who come along with a 'can do' attitude and want to run by the rules and be open and transparent will make great events

The biggest thing organisers need is support and help. Les has already jumped in and started a system like this to assist. Great stuff.

Stuart

[Les Fraser]

Hi Anthony and Stuart this is a great thread, and it demonstrates that the SOTY is well sought after by numerous shooters. There are many great points such as three different states and four shoots to count instead of three, Also a bit of history is a great thing to learn i for one didn't really appreciate how long it had been running and where it started.

It is very true we have some wonderful ranges now and there are actually people prepared to hold their hand up to help out. I think that the future of flyshooting is growing every day.

I for one love the whole aspect of the sport, the accuracy, the reloading, wind reading, shooting, helping out with the set up of ranges, scoring, placing targets on the wailing wall just to name a few.

There will always be folks who just want to pay their money and shoot, these guys are valuable to the sport they make up the numbers and pay their entries so competitions get bigger and bigger.

There are a number of shooters in this sport that on any given day can take the honours home with a win, this coming year 2012 i will focus on promoting the sport and getting as much help to organisers as possible.

Anthony, jugsy, Pete VM, Dave G all put in 100% for their respective shoots and PVM works tirelessly at many others, Staurt and Annie work hard for the Brisbane shoots and the more we can help these people the better our result will be.

This site along with the shoots belong to the Flyshooting fraternity and as such we all have a vested interest in keeping it as much fun as possible.

Jugsy who has been managing the SOTY for the past few years does an outstanding job and keeps the records and progress of shooters up to date after every match, we all thankyou for your valuable and continued work with the SOTY.

I would like to see more folks contribute to these threads afterall it is your individual input that is valued most.......

good shooting Les

[Jugs (Jaegen)]

Stuart,

I have been thinking about this for a little while now as like you and others, the sport has come a long way and it may be time for a review.

My thoughts so far.

Maybe 4 qualifying events
2 events in each state except maybe should QLD be 4 events, 2 for North and 2 for South.  There is a suggestion that another 500m range may come on board in the next couple of years for North QLD.

I hadn't thought about doing as you suggested with a qualifying from each state, not a bad suggestion. Taking into account the above minimum of three different states with 1 double up

I have a concern about minimum entry levels, for LG this is not a big concern but for HG it could be an issue, maybe Anthony suggestion of limiting points if entry level is under 10.

Lets keep this discussion going as I would like to put together a SOTY guide lines so all know how it works.

Jugs

[Dave Purcell]

I think that the previous format of 2 SOTY events per state and minimum 3 scores to qualify was good at the time the concept was introduced and the subsequent change to the points system has likewise been a good thing.
The growth of the sport and maintaing the challenge and integrity of the SOTY are what needs to be considered.
The inital concept of having to travel and shoot well at multiple ranges was both a test of skill and an incentive to attend matches.
With that in mind and considering that distance is a bigger issue for some more than others ie Little River, Batemans Bay or Wagga and Majura is a lot less driving that Townsville, Brisbane and any southern range.
How about  4 matches to qualify and no more than 1 score from any range ie If I attend the Federal Cup and The Procal at Majura only my best result can be included in SOTY. This means I have to attend a combination of Majura, Wagga, Batemans Bay, Brisbane, Townsville and Little River(any 4 once) to get 4 scores that count. I will still attend a 2nd event at those ranges to either improve my score or prevent someone else taking top points by winning myself.
To ease the pain each range can host 1 SOTY event per year with no more than 3 SOTY events in any state. This would allow Majura to host 2 events as it does now and should there be a dispute then the SOTY co ordinator can alternate multiple events ie 2 SOTY's in Baemans Bay and 1 Wagga in 2012 reversed in 2013 IF both ranges wanted to host 2 events in a year.
As far as minimum entries goes, I think if you meet the minimum number for a registered match in total then points should be as normal. If I travel to Townsville/Brisbane/Melbourne to win SOTY points and only get half points due to numbers, then I would need to know that HG entries were high enough to make it worth the drive before I left, this does not encourage people to travel.

[Les Fraser]

After looking at the threads to this i am supporting Dave Purcells comments about the manner in which to score the SOTY. I also think that Stuarts comments about minimum numbers is also valid and Anthony and Jugsy have also put alot of thought into it.

I don't think anyone wants to cause people any second thoughts about attending a shoot due to minimum numbers perhaps with the way Dave has put it his suggestion would encourage shooters to travel.

I think in times ahead people may even arrange travel together to shoots.

The sport is growing........
cheers Les

[Alan Esler]

Hi all,
I think Daves post on insufficient numbers = reduced points being a lack of incentive to travel is a very valid one, and for shooters that shoot both classes, they may decide if their HG scores are restricted, there's not much point  travelling a long way just for light gun which is usually heavily contested anyway, specially if they are already doing well on points (in light gun).
Regards,
Alan

[Les Fraser]

Hi Alan can you please use your name on the forum the same as everyone else the whole idea is to be completely recognisable that way at shoots new members can come up and talk to you personally.

A photo of yourself would be great to
cheers Les

[Les Fraser]

hi Jugsy can you please use your name on the profile so that everyone is the same you can still sign it off as Jugsy and we all know you but for knew shooters and identity please put your name up Jaegan or JPeet something like that.
Anyway mate thanks and if i don't see you this coming week have a safe chrissy and all the best to you and your family
cheers Les

[a.JR]

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[Anthony Hall]

Hi,

Yes I agree Jeff that we don't want to exclude anyone or any range from SOTY shoots.

I guess if the match is registered, shot in accordance with the rules and advertised as per the requirements then so be it..... I guess we all have the chance to go up to townsville and shoot against a smaller field if we think it is an advantage....

Maybe we should consider a small bonus point system for the big (national type) shoots..... ie if there is over 30 competitors  in any class the top 3 places get 5 bonus points or similar to reward those that win or place against  a  large field ?

On the subject of encouraging people to travel and attend shoots, I propose  that we  allow each range to conduct a maximum of two SOTY shoots per year (regardless of states), but a shooter must use at least one score from any of three or more ranges in their best four scores ?
ie One from Canberra, one from Wagga and 2 from Little river, or one from Canberra, One from Townsville and 2 from Brisbane.  You CAN'T then have 2 from your home range and 2 from the next closest range to win SOTY.

To attend 3 ranges, you have to travel regardless of where you are from and being able to use your best score from 2 matches will encourage people to attend as many as they can get to.... I think the more SOTY matches each year the better....

Cheers

Anthony

[Pete van Meurs]

There is no way that Townsville should fail to be included and it does not even need to come down to their typical numbers. Historically the LG entries are about double HG at most matches, so it seems simple to me to have two criteria.  First thoughts are 5 HG/10LG as minimum, although I would prefer say 7/14. More thoughts  anyone??
Pete

[Les Fraser]

I think that minimum numbers may disadvantage some clubs and there is no way this site is about reducing numbers we are just trying to work out a system that encourages folks to travel and shoot. I actually like Dave Purcell's recomendation, i think it has the best effect without microing down to minimum numbers.

Infact we should have every range that registers a shoot included in the SOTY but only the best one to count at any one range.

I think that Jugsy has been on the front foot with this for the past few years so i would like to hear some more thoughts from him.

This site is about promotion of the sport not exclusion, i want this to be clear no one is pushing any club out what we want is everything to be done right and within the rules so we have a creditable sport for us all to enjoy.

good shooting to all...

PS aJR jeff can you please put your name on the profile section so new folks can recognise you by name.

cheers Les

[a.JR]

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[Anthony Hall]

My vote would also be for the following;

1) 2 x SOTY at every approved range in Australia that wants to run them.
2) Matches must be SSAA registered Matches
3) Dates advertised at least 2 months in advance (so anyone who wants to can have a chance to get to them)
4) Best four SOTY results and must include 3 different ranges.

Cheers

Anthony

[David Dundas]

How do the points get worked out?

How many points for 1st, 2nd, 3rd etc.

Would like to do a SOTY at my local club, but would like for shooters to get a point who turn up as well, we need more shooters to attend on the cold or bad weather days. If I have to get out of bed when its 3C and raining then I would like for someone else comes along to shoot.


Regards


Dave Dundas

[Jugs (Jaegen)]

First things first

If you open the SOTY spreadsheet there is a tab that has the points system.

Now SOTY

I like the idea of each range approved to run a registered match being able to run 2 registered matches (althought I have reservation see below)

I have never liked the idea of minimum numbers, just look at the history and you understand that many shoots struggle to get the numbers

If we were to increase the number of available shoot I would insist that we have 4 qualifiers from a minimum of 3 different states.

Now here is the food for thought for NSW if BBay and Wagga were to have 2 shoots each I think we would have small numbers to each shoot??

Keep the ideas coming as I think we are all getting close to a common theme.

Jugs

[Jugs (Jaegen)]

Dave

One system that we run for MBC is linked to the number of attendees, with a minimum number to make it count.

Maybe Pete can explain this better.

Jugs

[Pete van Meurs]

Responding to Jaegens request I will outline how our club SOTY works. Firstly a minimum of 5 entries to call it a match. Then one point for last up thru the rankings to first place - so 10 shooters the winner gets 10 points. Plus a bonus of 3 for first 2 for second and 1 for third. Hence in this example the winner would get 13 pts. All matches count so as to encourage attendances - yearly winner being a regular shooter who also places well in many events - especially the well attended ones. This is not dissimilar to the way SOTY is scored for traditional Benchrest where entry numbers are included in the system and bonus points are awarded for yardage and aggregate wins. Once again the shooter prepared to attend a lot of matches (especially the big ones) and do well also will take the reward.
How to carry such a system over to the Fly is a bit of a worry - I will give it some thought. Certainly the original system of your three best scores from major comps (regardless of where shot) is no longer acceptable. The current system (used for 2010 and 2011) I believe is also flawed (sorry Jugs!).  It is my belief that some sort of minimum entry level is needed in order to give the  whole thing credibility (I will stay with 5x HG and 10x LG for now).
Just think on this - is it reasonable to recieve fewer points for second of 50 than first of 15 ??
Another thought is that the attraction to travel to score SOTY points will be (as it always has been) limited to a relatively few shooters that are perennially near the top of of the list - the mainstay of the sport is the increasing number of entrants at localised events - we need to recognise this and work at keeping the growth happening. SOTY is meaningless to the majority of Fly shooters and will remain so - sorry to say.

Pete