Case Prep

[Deane Thrower]

Guys,

I am looking for some information or possibly some lessons on benchrest case prep/case selection practices. I have an idea of the basics but im looking to take it to the next level. Any information would be greatly appreciated.

I know there is plenty of info on the net but to hear peoples experiences makes it so much easier to understand ( if that makes sence )

Thanks guys,

Deano

[Anthony Hall]

Hi Deane,

Great question, and one I am sure lots of people will be interested in what others do...

There is a lot to it and I am sure everyone does things a bit different, but the basics of what I do are

I always start with new brass, (ie I never use old range brass or other peoples fired rounds)

Then there are 2 parts of it for me.... First is a once only initial full preparation.  From there on in it is cleaning, sorting preparing and reloading each time.
Initial preparation
1) The first thing I do is neck turn.  Not beacuse I have to (ie my 6br and .308 are no turn chambers) but beacuse it improves concentricity and uniformity of neck tension.  To do this I measure a sample of the cases I have and set the trimmer to just touch (not cut) the shortest I find.  I then trim all the cases to this length.  It usually takes very little off them, but at least I know they are all the same. I then measure wall thickness and set the the neck turner to take the least off that I can to just cut all the necks.  Some it cuts all the way around and some it leaves a very small sections not touched.... I expand the necks using an expander mandrel matched to the neck turner I am going to use....I set the tool to turn to a depth until the blade just touches the shoulder (that's one reason for trimming to an exact length as the neck turn tool is controlled by the length). I guess there could be a whole article written on this, the techniques and tools.... but don't be scared.... it is not rocket science.

2) I then gently debur the flash hole.  To do this I use a hand tool set to just touch the flash hole inside the case to remove any burs from manufacture.
3) On calibers with large primers, I then uniform the primer pockets, but on 6BR I follow the popular opinion that one should touch the flash hole and primer pockets as little as possible for best results.
4)I then debur and champher the case necks.
5) I weight sort all the cases and discard (or keep for muck around shoots) any that weigh outside the range of the rest of them.... I find that in 100 cases, there will only be 2-3 max cases that get chucked in this process.
6) I then work out neck tension (0.002" for me), neck size approx1/2 -2/3's of the neck using redding bushing dies,  load and fireform them from here...

I do not worry about concentricity until after they are fireformed.  I never repeat the neck turning or flash hole debur for the life of those cases.

Someone else might chime in here and continue with what they do after each firing.

Cheers

Anthony

2) The next thing I do

[Deane Thrower]

Anthony,

Thankyou for taking the time to explain your approach to case prep. Judging by your results you are qualified  lol. I am building a fly gun so I need to improved my skills in order to make the rifle a sound investment. I have broken down my weaknesses into two parts, bench technique and reloading. For me I see the fundemental issue being lack of experience which is why I value the input from you guys, as it helps shave years of learning based on the experiences you have all had.

This is why I live fly shooting, you are like one big family. ( Dave I'm sure you would add distinctional or something along those lines ) lol.

Deano

[Dave Purcell]

Deane,
Disfunctional does even began to explain it mate. One thing I will say is that its a sport that can show you every emotion from elation to frustration all in one day while your mates put shit on you regardless.

Now to the question at hand ...

1. I run all new cases through an FL die (expander removed) or shoulder bump die. This makes them all the same base to neck shoulder junction.
2. Trim all to same elength
3. Chamfer necks
4. Unifrorm primer pockets
5. Uniform and deburr flash holes
6. Expand necks with correct expander mandrel
7. Neck turn to required size. Dont turn with a hot neck turner it will change the cut.
8. Weight sort now all pruning is complete
9. Check concentricity
10. Neck size all cases

Once fired I check and trim to length again. Re- neck turn (do not re-set the turner from the initial run) as some brass movement is likely. Check concentricity again.

This is a quick answer and I have probably forgotten something but someone else will fill the hole.

As for learning use good dies ie Wilson, Redding, Forster.
Dont work on brass or reload in a hurry or when preoccuppied

Come down to the Bay anytime(as long as I am not working) and we can work on bench technique and wind reading.

[Les Fraser]

Hi Deane
This is what i do when prepping cases it is a long process for me as i make sure everything is concentric and square.
6x47L
New Cases Lapua
1/ Put the Expander mandrel into the neck and push any imperfections to the outside.
2/ place the case onto a concentricity gauge and put the dial indicator into the neck then check the concentricity of the neck to the body of the case some are perfect some may be out by 6 thou if they are are out then i straighten them with a Neco tool.
3/ Once they are all straight and completely i then use a VLD chamfering tool and do the inside of the neck.
4/ The next step is to skim the case neck i do the skim right to the shoulder of the case making sure that i don't breach the integrity of the shoulder (just make sure you don't cut into the shoulder)
5/ then i Use a flash hole deburring tool inside the case with a guide on it to make sure it is perfectly straight. Also the deburring tool has had the shroud cut back to 3mm of the chamfer is on the inside of the flash hole.
6/ Once that is done i then turn the case over and do the primer pocket with Forster primer pocket reamer i have had the reamer cut to a specific length because some cases have a primer pocket that is deeper than the others so to keep them the same i have had a little taken off it. The primer must sit flat with the back of the case.
7/ I will then fire the case with a match load to stretch the brass once that is done my next step is to trim to length. i don't do it twice only once then i check the cases after every 5 firing's  to make sure they are the same. I then chamber the outside of the neck with a RCBS deburring tool.

I don't use hot loads so i don't get much brass movement but it you are using a high pressure accuracy node then you probably should check them after ever firing just to be sure.

Once i have done this as soon as i shoot a match i put the cases into the tumbler for about 4 hours to give them a real clean up then when it comes to the next reload i will de prime them clean the inside of the neck with a nylon brush one caliber smaller than the case you are doing so for 6mm i use a 22 cal nylon brush for a 30 cal i use a brush for a 7mm.

would you like me to take some photo's of the tools etc for you

hope this helps Les

[Denis Aarons]

How many firings to a case are you guys getting?

Do you anneal?  I know some do and some don't.

What brand of brass?

What caliber?

And do you trim to length, chamfer and deburr every reload?

Cheers, Denis.

[Les Fraser]

Hi Denis i use Lapua in the 6x47L and Winchester for the 300WSM i have used them for two years now without changin the brass so that is 700 shots for 50 cases each gun. I do anneal after every year and infact just about to do them this week. I use a Brass-o-matic it does a great job and easy to set up. I do know some shooters toss the cases away after every match but the time i take to prep them i use them till they split. (not quiet but you get the idea).

all the very best Les

[Pete v M]

Well it must be my turn to confuse Deane.
Short range benchrest - 6mmPPC formed from 220 Russian cases. Tight neck chamber and very short free-bore means neck turning is required. After fire-forming to PPC the case is trimmed and chamferred. No other sorting or prep is done.
'F' class std - 223 or 308. Std neck chamber as per the rules for this class. Bullet either jammed in lands or with some short bodied 308 bullets (eg Sierra 155) jumped .050". No case prep - new brass used once only then sold off.  Still hold the record at the local club for 3 ranges with 60, 60, 59.
'F' Open and Fly - as these are always chambers with long free-bore the bullet will self-align if jammed in the lands (see the thread started by Chappo on 'run-out'). I used to uniform the flash-holes with a view to avoiding bent de-capping pins but get lazy sometimes and lately tend to want them as small as possible to try to reduce pressure transmitted to the primer pocket (my loads tend to be hot). Also have found over the years that uniforming primer pockets achieves nothing more than extra work. Brass is never weight sorted but in some instances checked for neck wall uniformity. this is sometimes necessary when the loaded round is too close in size to the neck diameter of the chamber - the cut-off is usually .002" difference from thin side to thick side. Monitoring trim length is important ; mainly from a safety aspect as pressure will go sky-high if the neck bottoms out at the front of the chamber and crimps the neck into the bullet. As our cases are shared across multiple barrels in many calibres full-length sizing is essential. There is another reason for F/L and that has to do with allowing clearance so the bullet can self align. Between firings the cases merely have the necks cleaned before sizing and periodically trimmed and if needed the donut cut out of the neck/shoulder junction. I don't even bother cleaning primer pockets until the build-up of ash is enough to stop the new primer from seating properly. There will be some out there that will think I am bull-shitting but when you have to load over 6,000 rounds per year (remember there are two shooters in this camp and we shoot heaps of matches in various disciplines) you start looking to find what does not NEED doing. Surely the results from over the years in Fly and 1,000yd benchrest speak for themselves. Those who do the full prep should continue as to change could lead to a reduction in confidence.

Pete

[Anthony Hall]

Hi,

Yes I agree with Pete's last comment about confidence.....

Does full case prep,  sorting projectiles and cases, weighing and sorting everything including primers, picking the best 50 cases you have and having everything perfectly clean and reloading every round to the absolute best of your ability make that much difference ?

I don't know, but I do know that if one does it all and wins a match with a light gun score that has not been shot in the 20 years of fly shooting previously ........ It helps with confidence, and you are fairly certain that if you get a flyer, you missed a condition, it was not the reloading or prep.

Considering that this was the first match that I have put that much effort into being totally anal about everything, with results like that, you can bet your arse I'll do it all again for for every match !!

Cheers

Anthony

[Les Fraser]

Hi Deane i would like to make you an offer i am travelling down the south coast alot over the next three weeks would you like me to bring along my gear and give you a lesson of what i do???

Like Anthony and Pete have said it is what makes you confident........

I go all out for every match and i am just making my new guns cases now i have just hand turned 100 cases my wrists are aching and my hands are sore. Sure i could have used a machine but i like to feel the cases and make sure it is one hundred percent right.

Once you develop what works for you it is the wind and condition reading you need to practice and learn. The wind reading book i put on my post is fantastic starting point for you and all shooters who want to do better..

Anyway mate there you have the offer
cheers Les

[Deane Thrower]

Les,

Your offer would be greatly appreciated and I would accept on the basis I could foot your costs for
Such a trip. Again this "family" never ceases to amaze me with the generosity that it shown so often here. Les if you would like to chat and arrange something I will email you and go from there. Dave I would be thrilled for some bench coaching and wind reading lessons and I will also be in contact to arrange a time that suits you.

Thanks guys I am truely humbled with what I have seen since meeting you all. As Dave said to me once you have to dig through the coal to find the diamonds, well there appears to be quiet a few in the "fly family"

Regards
Deane

[Les Fraser]

Ok my cost will be lunch how is that !
what caliber do you have ? i have 308, 223,6x47l,6dasher,6br,6PPC,300AI set ups ready to go. Or i can bring one complete caliber with me and take you through the whole lot then you can see how to prep your cases up to you mate
you can call me anytime 0429604477 or 0403605274.
cheers Les

[john mc quire]

Hello Deane    I dont want to muddy the water too much
                         but at the last Fly Shoot in Brisbane   i was shooting new cases that had not been fire-formed
                       they had been trimmed for length  and very lightly neck turned  to get about 80% clean up
                       they were not weighed into batches -- i do that after they have been fired and trimed again  -
                     the bullets ( 123gn  Lapua)   were straight out of the box  -  and the powder thrown
                             the reason I shot these cases was the set of 50  cases i normally use needed resizing  and shoulder
                       bumping  -- they had become very hard to extract  --  and i dont like upsetting how my rifle rides on
                    the bags with very tight cases   --      I do know that my rifle does perform better with cases that have had
                       a lot more work done on them  -- but they did  O K  on the day
                                                                john mc quire

[Steven Butcher]

Hi Les, if you wouldn't mind posting up some photos of the tools you use I would be very interested

[Les Fraser]

happy to do it Steven i will take some shots over the next few days and get them up here for all to see.

Thanks for the request
cheers Les

[john mc quire]

Hello Les   have you made the case run-out checker yet ?
                    you were going to have a play with your new machines and use that as the project
                 or did you get too busy and buy one  ?
                    have you done any work on those new machines -- or just looked ay them --
                how about some photos of the gear you have made -- or what you use  --
                         lots of work ahead to prepare for 2012 fly shooting season
                                           john mc quire