Best Scope for Fly Shooting

[David Dundas]

All


I am having a new rimfire rifle built by Jiles (PESCO) based on a Stiller Copperhead action. Everything on it has been carefully selected, Barrel= Lilja 4 grove, Stock= McMillan, Trigger=Jewel but I still have not decided on a scope. The obvious options are Leupold, Nightforce or March, but there may be others - but what would you go with and why.
Remember its not just for 50 metres so a fixed power might not be the best when the mirage starts to run. Some also say the Nightforce is just too heavy to put up on top of a little rimfire, but the March scopes are just so expensive!
Even is your were to go with a March, which one would you choose?

Looking forward to your repsonses

Thanks

David Dundas

[Dave Purcell]

Can of worms here.
First to cost ... and these are only my musings
NightForce and Leupold Competion scopes are close enough in price as to not bother about it IMHO the weight issue is a different thing though, I disagree that a NF is to big for a rimfire.
You can comfortably use a Weaver T 36 out to 200 for rimfire Fly and they are good enough to do the job.
March are very good but like all scopes they are not for everyone. In my experience some scopes just dont work as well for my eyes and can cause headaches .. so test a March before you lash out (that advice applies to any brand you haven't used)
So whats the more important consideration ... cost or weight ????  That will decide much then add any "I want factor"
If it was me I would probably end up with a NF or a Weaver weight/cost considerations draw clear lines here.

[Anthony Hall]

Hi David,

I am sure there are lots of opinions out there..... but in my opinion the expense  of a march maybe overkill at 200m....

I have never seen Mirage bad enough not to see .22 holes in a fly target at 200m with a 12-42 nightforce scope.... 300 or 500m is different.... and maybe in the tropics mirage may be bad enough at 200, but I have never seen it.

If fly was the main purpose of the rifle.... then weight does not matter as 17lb is huge for a .22 and certainly there is no dissadvantage to extra weight when shooting.

If however you intend to shoot BR30 or other disciplines where weight matters.... then a nightforce may be a problem as they are heavy and a march, or loopy may present an advantage...

If I were building a .22 just for fly, it would be a Nightforce 12-42 NP2DD for me any day.

Cheers

Anthony

[Les Fraser]

Hi Dave yeh i agree with Dave Purcell some very sound advice. I have weavers, nightforce, leupold and march and to behonest love then all for divering reasons first of all i look at Reticle options and what you are going to use March make a great scope that is a 35-55 first focal plane which is a real gem and i will be saving to get one of these in the future. My T36 are great scopes too, if you are a person that adjusts the turrets then you will have to get a top line scope that returns to settings so therefore nightforce and march are the front runners.

I guess is it preference, i choose scopes for the specific purpose, there are any number of great scopes at shoots have a look through them then make your decision then.

The rifle you are building sounds like a real match winner good luck with it.

cheers Les

[john mc quire]

Hello David     Like the others  have said   it realy depends on your preferences  and  if you have any weight problems
                   with the rifle you are going to use   --- but try to have a look through the scope  to make sure it suits your eyes
                   also  if you are going to shoot at  a range that has heaps of mirage  a variable would be more suitable   --
                    i have seen mirage that bad that it was impossible to see .22 holes at 200yds  and then it doesn't matter what
                  you use  - your not going to see the holes all the time  --
                            all todays top brand scopes have great coatings on their lenses and good focus and parallax adjustments
                   that make them user friendly   and  even though their prices vary a lot  the end result is very close
                        it does realy depend on your personal likes or dislikes  and what you see while using the scope
                     and it also depends on who you buy the scope from   -- for the backup service if any problems  happen --
                                                      john mc quire  

[David Dundas]

Thanks Guys


Not much comment on the Leupold scopes, are they not as good as they used to be?

I have no weight problem, apart from the weight around my stomach region and I have one Nightforce scope already that I have been happy with but always thought that 2lb for a scope was a bit much for a 12 or 13 lb rifle. If you had an options of were the weight in a rifle was to go, then you would say in the stock or right behind the action and not sitting up on top.

The Nightforce sounds like it might be the way to go, would be fine to go over to a centrefire rifle later on if I wanted as well.
I shoot the Rimfire Fly every month and only occasionally in summer does the mirage get bad enough that you have to weight for a condition change or alternatively screw the power back on the Nightforce.

Thanks


Dave

[Dave Purcell]

I have a Leupold 36 and its fine as are the other Leupolds that said IMHO a Weaver or Sightron is cheaper and not really any different

[Jugs (Jaegen)]

Nightforce 12-42 ch3

Tried many others but now wouldn't use anything else

In terms of weight go for balance then reduce or add weight to keep a balance point.  I like to keep as close to 50/50 over the rest points

Jugs

[Stuart Elliott]

Just to clear up what Les has said about the March 36x-55x Eye piece zoom model scope it is not specifically a first focal plane scope. It is a specific benchrest scope though and is a zoom on the  eye piece instead of being a regular variable power scope. So it is a second focal plane scope with a zoom that has first focal plane qualities.
There are other FFP March scopes but they are not really for target shooting.
It is important to remember that any variable power second focal plane scope ( any brand ) will have slight point of impact change over it's entire magnification range. It will vary from scope to scope but the industry standard is 1/2 MOA. It's all to do with the internal design of the lens rotating and the reticle being in the second focal plane. Before anyone starts panicking, in practice, for target shooting it is usually a non issue. The biggest variation usually occurs over the entire zoom range and most shooters never use that. Also most shooters choose a magnification before shooting a particular target and do not change until another target if at all. On a good scope the POA (point of aim)will not move unless you change magnification during one target.

First focal plane design does not change POA at all at any magnification but because many of these reticles are not designed for target shooting they are too thick at their highest power. In other words, generally not suitable for target shooting.

Just for interest the the most popular March scope models that Rimfire guys are buying is the 10x-60x closely followed by the fixed 40x and a couple have the 8x-80x and 5x-50x in the March-X style too. All March scopes models now focus down to 10 yards.

From a personal point of view , obviously I recommend March and we use them but we have previously owned Nightforce and have been happy with them. We did have issues with two of these scopes which were early versions of the fixed 36x models but they were fixed up and not entirely the fault of the company either. I have even posted all this on other forums previously.  I see no point in running down the competition unless they have fundamental flaws. Notice I do not recommend any other brands.
The Benchrest series NF seem to be reliable and that is the No 1 most important issue. Even on a Rimfire rifle. Remember scopes are the weakest link in the accuracy rifle chain.
I have many people ask me what to do "I want a March but cannot afford one yet?" So I recommend they buy a BR series NF. At least I know they will have a good chance of being reliable and that is the most important issue.

Other factors to consider on your choices would also be eye relief and adjustment range. Will not be an issue with Rimfire I would hope. I would recommend that if you intend to shoot 200m Rimfire often you should have a 20 MOA or 25 MOA slope mounting system fitted (could be a rail or inbuilt in the rings) because even if a scope which you choose does happen to have enough elevation  you will not be anywhere near the optical centre of all those internal lenses. So if 200m is occasional for you then I guess  you can put up with it, but if it's the main purpose..... you know what to do. Because of the large amount of elevation required the issues are the same as something like 1,000 yard centrefire.

Hope that helps.

Stuart Elliott

[David Dundas]

Great info for anyone considering a top scope, thankyou to all who contributed.

I will work towards getting a March 10-50x with a 3/8 dot, but Santa may not be that generous this year.


Thanks


David Dundas

[Dave Purcell]

Good choice, you wont go wrong with that scope

[Steven Butcher]

What is the opinion on the sightron 10-60x scopes? I'm thinking about one of these for my 308 and maybe for the 22 aswell

[Les Fraser]

I have not heard to much about Sightron scopes but i do know some F class shooters use them, with any scope it really comes down to what you can afford and what you really like.
cheers les

[Pete van Meurs]

The Sightron has proven itself a worthy 'F' class scope both in 8-32 or 10-50. Reliable hold of POI has not been an issue but resolution to see bullet holes clearly at 500mt leaves them some way behind the popular choice - Nightforce 12-42 Benchrest model and the price difference is insufficient to be a serious factor.

Pete