300m Factory class

[Les Fraser]

Can we please have the rules posted on here from the respective clubs that hold the 300m factory class.

Then all fly shooters please read these rules and post once your thoughts, then comment only on the pro's and con's of the rules.

This type of open discussion is needed so everyone can reach a Gentlemens agreement and then we have somewhere to work from, bearing in mind that each location has the right to make these rules as they see fit and those who enter do so under no illusion that rules are different than what is posted as the conditions.

cheers Les

[Dave Groves]

Hi Les and all, I will have to post the CBR rules when I dig them up at home, but fundamentally they differ from the other factory class rules in three ways, we allow replacement varmint or tactical style stocks, a factory trigger lightened to whatever pull as long as it is safe and replacement barrels as long as they are factory profile and in a twist that was offered from the factory.

These have been developed to grow the Bat Shoot and have been successful in that regard.

Our other thing with Factory is that they shoot on a full sized target at 300 and Custom shoot on a 3/5th scale.

On the basis of the posts that have been put in the other thread I think that our rules would be a good basis for the Varmint Hunter/tac class.

I agree with Pete that shooting Factory for those with Custom guns and experience isn't really in the spirit of the competition. I did it to fill in the day and shoot more like some others, but it is hard to find just where the "novice" class should apply with shooters coming from other disciplines.

More later, great subject!

Cheers.

Dave.

[Anthony Hall]

Hi,

Here are the original (draft 1) rules that are in use at Wagga, Leeton & Melbourne
Factory_Class_Draft1.pdf

Here is the later version (draft 2) that is in use at Batemans Bay
Factory_Class_rules.pdf

We will add Canberra's version to this thread when we have them available.

I look forward to some good discussion on this topic and maybe even reaching a 'Gentleman's agreement" on a common set of factory class rules, or even agreeing to different clubs having their own rules.  At the end of the day, the shoot belongs to the shooters and the rules can be whatever either the local clubs wants to run, or whatever the majority of shooters feel is in the best interests of the sport.

My personal view is that more simple the rules the better for factory class, the less we have to check (trigger weight,  barrel twists etc) the easier it will be to run and enter for a newer shooter.  Basically any standard bolt action hunting style repeating rife with basic modifications like bedding and doing whatever you like to the trigger, add a scope, develop a load and shoot it.

I really like the idea of a Varmint/tactical class... but fear that it would deplete numbers from factory class to where neither class is really worth running....  

I see no issue with experienced guys (PvM included) shooting factory class, as long as they are doing it with standard factory gear for the fun of it.  No good having a class with only 3-4 participants.

I will discuss this with some of the shooters at our club, as we have a variety there that have started shooting factory class, and will progress into the fly as time goes on.... some with out of the box gear and factory ammo, some that have started reloading and are getting better, a great guy that has a Sako TRG in .308 that he shoots of a Bi-pod (and would like to enter in factory class) and others that have both custom and factory gear.

Cheers

Anthony

[Anthony Hall]

We need to keep this discussion going.

I have a local shoot this weekend, and intend to discuss some of the points with our members who shoot factory class both in our club shoots and the 300 fly. I know PvM plans to do the same at his next shoot in Melbourne.

The way I see it, the main discussion revolves around a few key issues, they are

1) Barrel Replacement - Should we allow after market barrels, or leave the rules as they stand at factory barrels only.

2) Stock replacement - Should we allow aftermarket stocks as long as they maintain a rounded forend of less than the 2.6", or should we maintain the rules as no replacement stocks ?

3) Trigger weight - Should we allow whatever triggers are on the rifles from new (acu triggers, set triggers and or standard triggers home modified to any pull weight that is safe., should we allow anything goes with triggers ?.... or should we require a minimum pull weight and have to weigh them before a shoot ?

4) Should we allow single shot actions, or do we believe that standard factory (hunting/varmint) rifles have magazines ?

What are your opinions ? and or vested interests in either having something allowed or disallowed to suit what you have or believe should or should not be shot in this class.

Is there anything else ?  Should we restrict factory class to attached bi-pods and a rear sand bag ? or not allow windage adjustable front rests ?

Cheers

Anthony

[Les Fraser]

i think there is alot of merrit in sorting this out my take on this would be:

a functioning magazine that can hold at least two rounds,
any trigger weight as long as it is safe. (to hard to police trigger weight)
25x scope
Fixed Harris (type) bipod shot from a rear sand bag only
allow replacement barrels as long as it can chamber a factory round but barrel must be in the same twist rate
no changes to stock at all such as bag sliders or changes for an adjustable check piece etc.
No trueing or straightening of the action this can easily be seen.

If a Barrel is fitted after market that has an enormous chamber on it and will fit factory rounds in then i really don't see the problem most manufacturers now have stainless barrels as standard.

my thoughts

[Anthony Hall]

Hi,

I ran a fantastic club shoot today, our fox shoot was 500m, 300m & 200m all centrefire.  I had several newer shooters as well as some first timers there at the range today... It is going so well we need to build more benches !!

Seeing them have a ball getting shots on paper (competitively) at 500, then grouping well with their factory rifle at 200 & 300m...I really believe we need to grow this class as a fun additional class for experienced guys as well as an entry point into the sport.  Saw a guy with a brand new 22-250 with factory ammo go head to head with some with Sako TRG 308 and hand loads and do very well....  All this was shot and enjoyed on the same targets at the same time by guys with full custom gear.

My opinion is that as long as we keep the factory class to whatever can be easily bought off the shelf... shot with either factory ammo or hand loads, has a functioning magazine........ modify the trigger if you want, bed it if you want.... add up to a 25x scope, develop a load or find a factory one that works, and shoot it..... we will see these people flow more and more into the entry level and then some will go on to full custom class, some will be happy to turn up 2-3 times a year and have a crack with what they have....

If we allow rebarrels ,single shot actions (savage f class etc), replacement stocks, we are taking away the out of the box factor that makes it appeal to either those on a budget or those that want to compete with entry level gear.... If one does it, lots of other certainly will, rules get pushed to their limits.... then it becomes not an entry level equipment shoot.  We have custom class for that...

Cheers

Anthony

[Pete van Meurs]

Hi All,

I spoke with the Factory rifle people in the Melbourne club yesterday and it is not possible to have them adopt a set of rules such as is proposed. The reason being that to get bums on seats they have allowed the rules to evolve to suit the majority of their group. Basically as follows - must be factory barrel, alternative stock OK so long as it retains the 'sporting' nature of the rifle, any factory rifle except cataloged target models, single shot OK also. In addition they have lifted all restrictions on triggers and scopes. It's what works for them so they will keep ' going it alone'. Since none of these guys travel interstate it hardly matters. Conversely, should a visitor wish to join them for one of their club matches they now know what is OK in Melbourne in order to win the magnificent prize of a pat on the back!

Pete

[Dave Groves]

Hi Pete and All,
                             Canberra is in a similar situation with our Bat Shoot, the rules have been evolved to promote the expansion of the competition with people re-barrelling factory guns to what would fall into the "Pest Rifle" class now to be more competitive, falling somewhere between a factory gun and a custom one.

We will probably just have to leave it the way it is as and outline what is acceptable at each club and leave it at that.

Cheers.

Dave.

[Peter Merriman]

From all that I have read here over the last couple of weeks it seems that there is not one solution that is going to fix this.
It seems to me that Factory class should be an off the shelf hunting rifle that shoots factory ammo with the view to bringing more shooters to our sport.
If shooters want to shoot the 300 then they either fit with the true factory rifle class (whatever the rules are) and qualify for trophies or they compete as custom class. I understand there are rifles out there that need new barrels ect but those shooters have (in most cases) custom rifles that could be used in the custom class.
In the short term I think this allows everyone who wants to shoot, able to.

Just my 2 cents

Peter

[Les Fraser]

My 3cents worth from the differing rules i think it is best left up to the host club as they are the ones who have locals wanting to have a crack. Custom guys and gals are travellers factory is just a shit load of fun......

Long live the 1983 Crow Gun (same barrel)

[Tim Pavey]

I shoot heavy and light gun in the fly and 1k matches, I shoot custom class in the  3oom matches. I also enjoy shooting my rem vls .223 in  factory class at shoots that offer that class for three reasons
1 more trigger time
2 I enjoyshooting this rifle
3 It's about the only time I get to shoot it - would be a safe queen otherwise.

When the barrel wears out - who knows, guess it wil be custom class only

cheers
Tim

[Anthony Hall]

Some good discussion was had on this topic at Wagga, and I think that everyone is on the same page that it will be an individual club decision as to the format and rules they apply to factory class events.

A possible solution that occurred to me after seeing Chappo shoot his recently acquired, rebarreled L461 in 6ppc and self disqualify himself, I am told Russel LeMaitre also entered as self disqualified...  I think the results (unofficially 6ppc first and second by a country mile in factory) ..further substantiated that single shot 6ppc rifles are not equal to typical factory rifles.....

I want to protect the factory class, maintaining the potential for someone to buy an available off the shelf rifle and expect to be competitive if they load and shoot well on the day, and I was also concerned that introducing a Varmint or similar class would water it down to such a point where nether class has enough entries....

At Batemans Bay, I would be happy to set our factory class rules as they stand, but allow rebarreled rifles, single shot actions, Sako TRG, cooper and similar nice toys in a factory available calibre to enter... have their scores recorded and displayed through out the day and award them fly patches etc...  We just put a simple disq next to their name on the list.... then on the final results posting we just move them to the bottom of the rankings, but leave their score so they can see how they would have finished and evaluate how good their toy is etc.

That way you can shoot whatever toys you want to play with for fun, and still enter your custom rifle in custom class to score for the 2 day and or outright 300m etc....

Over time, if we see say 15+ disq entries, either create a varmint class specifically for them.... or re evaluate what the majority want.

Cheers

Anthony