200m RF Fly Shoot

[Jugs (Jaegen)]

To all RF Fly shooters

I would like to put a thought out there.

Should this event be 200 yds not 200 m?

This come about after looking at many ranges who don't have 200m but do have 200 yds, now I can''t comment on the bay but ozant or dave might be able to tell me, but nearly all others who shoot this do so at 200 yds.

The other reason for the question is that the fly rules are still intrim so changes are theoretically possible, but once they become official then we have to wait 5 years for any changes.

Thoughts Please

Jugs

[Anthony Hall]

HI Jugs,

Great question.... My view is that we live in Australia not the US and we use Metric.... the 500 is metres the 200 should be exactly that....

As luck would have it, our range in Batemans Bay meets the 200 metres... but if it did not, I would plan to make it 200m for the Fly shoot....

Mind you, as all competiors on a given range have the same conditions.... beit advantage or disadvantage... does it really matter that much for the 200 ?
I guess for records etc it does...... but .... what do others think.

Cheers
Anthony

[chappo (Greg Chapman)]

...........except we shoot SRBR at YARDS, measure our groups sizes in INCHES, our scopes move in divisions of INCHES and we weigh our guns and triggers in POUNDS and OUNCES......... (just kidding)

As most ranges have a 200 YARD set up already I think rimfire fly should be in yards. If we require ranges to make alterations to shoot the rimfire fly we may put them off starting or expanding their rimfire fly shoots.

At Wagga we have a 3 metre high dirt bank about just behind the 200 YARD target frame posts. I dont think we could sneak 200 METRES in without moving the entire bank. Given that rimfire fly is really in its infancy and most clubs shoot various 200 YARD competitions it may not be in the best interests of growing the rimfire fly to make clubs undergoe major alterations to cater for it.

Just my two cents !!

cheers
Chappo555

[Dave Purcell]

500 metre Fly is the Centrefire variant and it equates to 550 yards.
200 metre Fly or 200 yard Fly bit of a tricky one that but lets look at it another way ....
Are we shooting 300 metre or  300 yard for the short version of centrefire it seems to me that if its consistancy you want it will have to be metres because 550 yard Fly shoot sounds a bit odd to me.

So ..
500M Centrefire Fly
300 ??? Centrefire Fly
200 ??? Rimfire Fly

At this stage to the best of my knowledge the NSW Championship has always been 500 & 200 Metres thats possibly because for all but a few years when Tamworth held it Batemans Bay has been its home and those are the ranges at the Bay. I think Tamworth was 200m as well but I may be wrong.

What exactly do the interim rulses say about Rimfire and for that matter 300 Fly ????????

[Anthony Hall]

The interim rules clearly state that the range must be 200 metres +/- 2%..., 300 is not part of the SSAA benchrest interim Fly rules at all.

For a non registered match you can run whatever you want.....

I think the point was.... do we want to keep it metres.... open it up to either., or change to yards.  Would it really matter that much if some were yards and some where metres ?.... Especially with rimfire, each day is different and each range has its own charasteristics..... Could we allow it to be shot on either distance with records standing either way with no discrimination? As long as all competitors have the same distance on the day.....

Just a thought....

Or even allow registered matches at either distance for a period of say 3 years to give ranges a chance to change if it takes off for them....

Cheers
Anthony

[Pete van Meurs]

Interesting!  
Since most ranges are set up in yards it makes sense to change from 200 metres to 200 yards.  Some ranges would find it awkward and difficult to go metric. Others (like Silverdale) would find it impossible. For record purposes it must be one or the other. To change the distance in the interim rules is simple - canvas other shooters in your state to get the majority view and have your one of your two state delegates put it forward as an agenda item at the National benchrest conference in WA next Easter. If there is common thinking between the state delegates it may even be agreed upon before then by mutual assent across the country.
Currently the class is only actively conducted in NSW at a number of ranges. Vic may come on stream but only at  Eagle Park where 200yds would be preferable. Qld would probably be of similar mind as the majority of ranges are constructed to suit centrefire benchrest. We need to nail this down quickly - so start talking to people in your state, but be sure to explain the logistics before getting an opinion.

Pete

[Jugs (Jaegen)]

Pete,

You seem to have understood my point exactly.

There are many ranges set up and surveyed for 200yds and maybe 1 or 2 that have 200m.

I am try to encourage shooters to get interested in Fly shooting and being that RF seems to have a large following it is a good way to get people involved.

Please talk it around the traps as I think Pete and I are on the same wave length and we can discuss with our Victorian collegues.

Jugs

[Anthony Hall]

It would seem stange to have a 500m and 200yrd ? Fly.... What would the 300 be ?

Could we consider proposing 200 m+/- 10% for rimfire Fly to accommodate either range setup.

200 yards = 182.88m
200m = 218.72 yards.

So either would fall inside this.... Records would all stand on any of them and it would just be a characteristic of each range... are they up hill, down hill 200m or 200 yards.... all part of the particular range.

Just name the event "200 Fly" ...

[Pete van Meurs]

Hi Anthony,
Your suggestion seems to make some sort of sense - however there is the problem of this being an event in the BR rule book. What this means is that for setting of records etc a fairly tight tolerance must be used. +/- 10% would not be likely to be found acceptable. In fact the tolerance allowed for 500mt ranges needs to be tightened from the current 5%. The mix of Imperial and Metric is not unusual. Rimfire benchrest group and hunter class matches are shot at 50  metres and 100 yards, once again because thats how most ranges evolved. The most easily achieved standard is 200 yards. Silverdale cannot extend any further. Melbourne, Brisbane, Jarrahdale,Para, Wagga, Leeton and others would all require unjustifiably costly earthworks (for a twice a year event, at best) I know that it will mean that Batemans is going to have to redo it's frames but at least no earthworks should be involved. Perhaps some sort of levy on these matches could be imposed to help fund the work. As for the 300 centrefire Fly - this is an unofficial event and deserves to stay that way so the 'Factory Class' can continue. It is currently shot at 300mt in Wagga and 300yd at both Melbourne and Leeton (records being peculiar to each individual range - other than for giggles).
Pete

[Les Fraser]

I think everyone is working on the the right track here. Personally "fly" shooting at what ever range is great fun and the more people we can get involved in the sport the better the over all result and attendance. There is great scope for this type of shooting to grow. I like the call that was made about the "200" fly if this is the case then why can't there be records for 200 yards and 200 meters that way no one has to alter ranges, the result will be the same a range a record......

I would advocate that there be a rule book for "Fly Shooting" and a set of guidelines that all clubs adhere to in relation to the way shoots are run.

This is my thought.
1/ Bench Draws to be held at the range at 7.00am on the day of the match - that way everyone is there and bench numbers can be drawn from a ballot and then people can set up.
2/ All light gun entries to be weighed at 7.45am Two people to varify the weighing. Which includes all light guns used in the shoot.
3/ Delegates one from each state to be the dispute committee or in the advent of only two states at the shoot then two from one state and one from another.
4/ Standardised method of calculating scores and groups
5/ Only 8 rounds to be on the bench top clearly visible to the RO
6/ An equipment list be provided by the shooter
7/ Method of management of the media eg this web site and information sent through about the shoot eg spreadsheet of results. photo's etc

I am sure that there are any number of other things that we could put in there and perhaps these jobs as above would encourage people to assist as Pete Vanmuers posted before about shirkers and workers.

What do you think

[Anthony Hall]

Hi Les,

Yes..... 200 yards or metres.... even if we have to have 2 records (one for yards and one for Metres) for a national record... so what.. Let some be yards, and others be metres...

As for a standard system, I agree, but I think that the range draw needs to be done at least a day before.... it is not a 5 min job by the time the organisers take into account all the equipment, flag and bench sharing requests, setting up scoring spreadsheets, and then there is the fact that a lot of people like to set up wind flags and practice the day before, . ... but in the interests of transparency, I would like to see the bench draw done in a fair and transparent manner and published a minimum of 24 hours before the event for all to see.

I agree that a weigh in and identifying which rifles have been weighed in should be mandatory.

As for a rule book and committee..... we have one already.... it is part of the SSAA benchrest discipline and there is a committee , rule book and process already in place... Maybe we all could benefit from knowing more about how this system works and who the delegates are (I know I would like to understand it more).

Cheers

Anthony

[Anthony Hall]

Pete van Meurs wrote

. In fact the tolerance allowed for 500mt ranges needs to be tightened from the current 5%.

I understood this to already be +/- 2% for 500.... at least that is what we had to have our range surveyed as to comply for both the 500 & 200m....

Cheers

Anthony

[Pete van Meurs]

Oops - pressed the wrong button.

[Steven Nash]

We shoot 50m and 100yds in rimfire  and no one complains so why not 200yd RF Fly and 500m CF Fly...Most ranges now require mounds behind the target frames and this makes it impossible to go to 200m...which makes it viable to every range in the country that goes to 200yds.

[Les Fraser]

Hi guys i think we still need to be talking about this issue about yards or meters with the interim rule discussion after all we are trying to build the sport with more members
cheers Les

[Steven Butcher]

I've only shot rimfire fly a couple of times at Silverdale (200yds) and in June at Batemans Bay (200m) this year and I don't think it matters what the distance is. I do think that if you are going to pick one it would need to be 200yd to cater for ranges like Silverdale that can't be moved to 200m.

[David Dundas]

A number of ranges are in yeards and not metres. The only Fly shoot in the Sydney basin is the Silverdale Fly shoot which has been running for about 10 years. It has and always will be just 200 yards. It may mean we can not hold a championship, but we enjoy it all the same. Not alot of difference between the two distance, this year a bunch of us from Silverdale went to Batemans Bay Championships and Finished 1, 2nd , 4th, and 6th and also took the top junior position as well - Most had never seen the range at Batemans or not shot at the longer distance, just a couple clicks and away we went. The wind at Batemans bay was more of a problem for the Silverdale guys then the extra few yards. The scores were about 20 points down on what would have been shot at our home range as a result.

Regards


Dave Dundas

[Les Fraser]

hi Dave welcome to the site i would appreciate it if you would use your name and post of photo of yourself, the reason is we want people to provide their details so at matches folks are recognised and new shooters can come up and talk to you a lot easier.

Others on the forum are gradually putting up their photo's but the name is important. I am very keen to come and shoot with Silverdale i am just sorting out a few issues with the rifle and then i will try and be a regular participant.

cheers and thanks for contributing
Les Fraser

[David Dundas]

Thanks Les

I have updated my Name and will include a proper picture as soon as I can.


David Dundas